Narcissistic perverts: knowing how to protect yourself, interview with psychotherapist Anne Clotilde Ziegler

Narcissistic perverts: knowing how to protect yourself, interview with psychotherapist Anne Clotilde Ziegler

At work, as a couple, as a family… narcissistic perverts can really be toxic. How to spot them and learn to protect yourself from them? Advice from Anne Clotilde Ziegler, psychotherapist for over 30 years.

What is a narcissistic pervert?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : A narcissistic pervert is a person who presents a double pathology. He possesses both a narcissistic side with a grandiose sense of self, as well as an evil side with sadistic traits, delighting in the harm or suffering he can inflict on another.

Are these people aware of the harm they are doing?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : Yes, they are aware that they are doing harm but it does not affect them. In reality, they are not aware that doing harm is bad. It amuses and delights them.

How to spot a narcissistic pervert?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : This type of individual first of all has the apparent traits of the narcissist, with a very pronounced emphasis on the “me”. This is seen quite quickly. On the other hand, perverse manipulations are more subtle to spot.

Often, the victim knows that there is something wrong in the relationship: difficult relationship sequences, which do not end well for example. The victim is amazed and hurt by the other’s reactions. It’s usually when we inquire that we realize who we’re dealing with.

What are the consequences for the victim of a narcissistic pervert?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : This can provoke questions in the victim who wonders if the problem comes from them or from the other person. She may thus lose self-confidence, be faced with permanent stress and physical repercussions may appear. Reactions linked to shock can lead to post-traumatic syndrome. These are therefore not consequences to be taken lightly.

How do you become a narcissistic pervert?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : There are three kinds of narcissistic perverts.

  • The first is the human being who initially did not receive enough welcome and nurturing from his parents. His “self” is therefore not constructed in a sufficiently solid and coherent manner.
  • The second type of narcissistic pervert concerns children who have not been given enough limits. Didier Pleux speaks of “child tyrants”. Not having been confronted with the limits of others, this individual did not face the humanity of others either. This may be linked to a mother who did not assert her own needs, in opposition to those of her child.
  • Finally, the last type of narcissistic pervert is the gifted. The latter, rejected because of his differences, spends his time taking revenge for the rejection he experienced, notably through manipulation thanks to his intelligence. The rejection generated a narcissistic wound in him.

These explanations often remain indirect hypotheses of clinicians because narcissistic perverts do not generally come for consultation. In fact, they do not perceive that there is a problem.

How can we help them?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : To help them, we must set clear limits for them. For example, when prey leave the relationship, they limit their possible influence and therefore their feeling of omnipotence. Thus, it is difficult to help them because they feel above others and do not feel the need to get help. As long as we try to help them, we remain potential prey.

What should I do if I encounter a narcissistic pervert on a daily basis (especially at work)?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : We have to leave. If we can’t, we protect ourselves. Unfortunately, we cannot protect ourselves for very long against this type of person.

Good in his body, good in his head!

Do you have a message to convey?

Anne Clotilde Ziegler : Don’t try to get revenge, make people listen to reason or treat a narcissistic pervert. Don’t chase this goal because you won’t achieve it.